Electric cars and heat pumps are not green

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Jez, Nov 14, 2021.

  1. Jez

    Jez Senior Member

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    At this present moment the majority of our electric comes from gas power stations, the efficiency of turning gas to electric is 40% thus 60% is lost
    good diesel cars are 45% efficient they turn 45% of the fossil fuel into driving the car
    a good petrol car turns 35% into driving the car
    an electric car under our current system, starts off getting electric at a 40% deficit, then charging losses can be as high as 60% on fast charge so could be down to about 20% efficient
    My gas boiler is about 90% efficient, If I now get an electric one, it will get electric produced by gas at 40% then with the heat pump losses down to about 30%???
    Is there only me that has done the research and the maths
    until we have full renewable these are worse than we currently have
    rant over
     
  2. GappySmeg

    GappySmeg Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I agree roughly with the sentiment of your post, the figures you've quoted for diesel & petrol engine efficiency (which are those that all pro-ICE seem to quote) are massively misleading.
    They're peak efficiency figures possible under idealised conditions. Real-world usage (I.e.driving through a city) are nowhere near that.
    By contrast, a power station is able to run at peak efficiency all the time.
    Like I say, I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post, (EV is far from the magic bullet many seem to claim) but your figures are pants.
     
  3. Kentblade

    Kentblade God Like

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    This is the can of worms thread, totally agree with the sentiments, this whole argument has been hijacked by the tree hugging, road hand gluing freaks aided and abetted by just about any other arsehole that wants to jump on the protest wagon, which is basically the pathetic liberal woke brigade of apologists that has infested this and many countries in the last few years and has intensified since Covid.

    COP26 just shows what a load of bollox the majority are being forced to accept in this country. The worlds biggest polluters refuse to change, and it’s 2 fingers up to the rest of us, the fing Chinese aided by the Yanks are destroying this planet at an ever increasing rate and there’s nothing the rest of us can do, even the mealy mouthed bully boy EU cowers down to them, they talk tough to us, but roll over and stick their asses in the air for a good rodgering by the Chinese and Yanks, and now the next mass polluter India has jumped on the bandwagon, and as much as we are loaded up with green taxes, our efforts are just pissing into an ever increasing storm and blowing back all over us.

    As for the first paragraph, if those wankers took their protests to the streets of Beijing, Delhi, New York then I might have some respect for their position, but all you ever see, is them holding the population of this country to ransom, disrupting daily lives knowing full well that the miserably pathetic Police Service stand back and will do nothing…..then there’s that twat Thunberg, miserable little bitch, feel sorry for any guy that might get hooked up with her.

    Rant over.
     
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  4. dern

    dern Well-Known Member

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    You've ignored the cost of extracting the oil and gas. You've picked the best and worst case numbers to support you point of view. You've ignored that the end goal is to reduce pollution. You've ignored the fact that the balance of costs will shift away from fossil fuels as they develop. There's no conspiracy.
     
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  5. dern

    dern Well-Known Member

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    This is appalling. She's a teenager with strong beliefs probably more focussed that most due to her autism. This is an atrocious thing to post.

    I think I'll just stay out of the lounge. This kind of aggressive shit toward people you don't agree with just freaks me out and makes me lose my sense of what makes sense. I honestly can't understand it at all.
     
    #5 dern, Nov 15, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  6. Blade runner 1

    Blade runner 1 Elite Member

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    In a nutshell, couldn’t agree more. Just to add when all these electric vehicles and charging points magically appear, there’s going to be a lot of cable overheating when everyone decides to charge their cars at the same time.
     
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  7. Lozzy

    Lozzy God Like

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    Well said...
     
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  8. Kentblade

    Kentblade God Like

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    And that my friend is what opinions are all about, don’t expect everyone to agree, but at the end of the day if she can lecture the rest of us on what she thinks, and then stand on a podium in this country encouraging people to take to streets and protest and cause disruption, then she opens herself up to scrutiny in a big way, and as I said, if she grew some balls and took her protest to the chief source of fossil emissions, ie Beijing and fronted Xi Jinping and his cronies up, then she would get a bit more respect from me and potentially many others.
     
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  9. dern

    dern Well-Known Member

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    This argument of opening yourself up for scrutiny holds water but what scrutiny are you applying when you call a kid a miserable twat? We can disagree on that for sure but I really struggle with people exercising the freedom to be so fucking grim to others, especially with they're a young girl with autism.
     
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  10. NS400R

    NS400R Elite Member

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    Greta said “You can shove your climate crisis up your arse”.

    If she’s prepared to behave like this, she can have both barrels in my opinion. I get where you’re coming from on the vitriol but Kentblade ain’t wrong in what he says.
     
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  11. GappySmeg

    GappySmeg Well-Known Member

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    That's one funny post... I played "gammon bingo" whilst reading that and had to shout "house" 4 times!!!
     
  12. Jez

    Jez Senior Member

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    My main reason for posting is we are being brainwashed into the fact everything will be solved if we all go electric, When in reality about 10% of our electric comes from renewables we are a long way from this land of the green and until we get there electric is not the answer
     
  13. bazzashadow

    bazzashadow Elite Member

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    I think we are the ones who should be glueing ourselves to the roads seeing as we have paid for them;)
     
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  14. Muffking

    Muffking God Like

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    Religion anyone? ;)
    You may as well, as Boris or anyone who matters ain't reading any of this.
     
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  15. CharlieR85

    CharlieR85 Elite Member

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    World leaders are kidding themselves if they think we can even try to control the climate without absolutely everyone pulling in the same direction.

    Anyone thinking of getting a new motorbike, don't delay, do it now. Feels like things are getting worse by the day at the minute.
     
  16. hitch

    hitch Elite Member

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    The Greta generation including my kids, are inheriting massive life changing problems and will be dealing with issues that are being compounded by the decisions of greedy middle aged men making billions to maintain the status quo (not that dreadful band o_O).

    It's clear to me there needs to be global action to combat the climate crisis (cease the use of fossil fuels - fuck knows how we could do that though), however none of us, not a single one, wants to change our lifestyle or take the short term pain for the longer term benefit of the planet and future generations - we are all guilty of hypocrisy to a certain extent.
     
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  17. Lozzy

    Lozzy God Like

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    It's all pointless unless they address the elephant in the room of population growth as well.
    Current world figure is about 7.9 billion and forecast to be about 9.8 billion in the next 30 yrs!! So thats another 2 billion folks all wanting housing food water cars phones etc etc.
    Unless they get a grip on this....which they won't.....it will put further burden on an already creaking system and undue any attempts at progress.

    If you like reading and want a stocking filler, this books fascinating. He explains why we are just a tiny part in the life cycle of earth and will become extinct, regardless of what we try to do. Like other life before us.


    https://geographical.co.uk/reviews/...years-in-12-chapters-by-henry-gee-book-review


    20211026_084856.jpg
     
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  18. CharlieR85

    CharlieR85 Elite Member

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    I tend to agree with the theories that we aren't capable of changing our climate permanently and we are merely riding along and interfering slightly with the planets natural cycles. I think the cause of being more sustainable is a worthy one though but not at the expense of riding my bikes :D. I'd rather not have it rammed down my throat either by Thunberg et al.

    The more you read about global population growth suggests that it will plateau eventually as all countries become fully developed. It may even begin to shrink eventually.
     
  19. bazzashadow

    bazzashadow Elite Member

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    Nothing will help anyway:rolleyes:
    It’s just nature doing it’s course that it has been doing for the last million years
     
  20. bazzashadow

    bazzashadow Elite Member

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    How did the dinosaurs get iced in :rolleyes:
     

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