ECU remap

Discussion in 'General 1000RR Discussion' started by stuart_g, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    I’ve been considering some sort of fueling correction and originally was going to go down the route of either Power Commander or Rapid Bike but after checking with insurance my underwriter who i’m with at the moment wouldn’t insure it and quotes for a new policy were silly so now considering ecu remapping.

    Can insurance companies detect these......?

    I have heard a lot about Woolich but don’t think once the software is on the ECU that you can go completely back to stock ECU??
    I have just been reading on the BSD Performance website that they map the original ECU and that the original map is sent to you if you need to put it back. They don’t mention they use Woolich at all so if you’re only after sorting the fueling and not any of the additional stuff Woolich offer would this be a sensible route to go?
    Would this be detectable by an insurance company if the worst was to happen?
    My bike is stock and will probably stay that way. I like the exhaust and if insurance is anything to go by adding a can will push the price up which i don’t want. I really just want the best it can be with it in standard form.

    What do you suggest?
    Anyone had their bike mapped at BSD?

    Cheers
     
  2. Brom66

    Brom66 Member

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    Had my 1299 remapped/ flashed, on a rolling road. Mapper said for me to get some threaded bungs and remove the sensor, but if you know what to look for this may be an issue with warranty if you have any, or cut off the pins inside the plug connecter so they are not live, but they look as they should, but if you know what your looking for I left the sensors in and just taped the ends over

    Got a Rapid Race on the SP2 never thought about insurance, it does bug me it easy to find under the seat cowl so easy to find thought they may have put it out of sight. With the exhaust, just told them I fitted the Akrapovic exhaust from the Honda accessories
     
  3. dgr

    dgr Member

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    I had mine done at BSD and can thoroughly recommend them. I have a Scorpion end can and had it mapped for that with the baffle removed. I wasn't interested in extra power just smoothing out the curve at the lower end. I had some issues with an idle problem after a service and they put the stock map back for me before it went to Honda to investigate. After it came back they redid the map with a few tweaks that they had learned from mapping a few more SC77s and only charged me £50. I don't think the insurance changes much for an end can and I haven't mentioned the remap. If Honda can't tell then I'm pretty sure an insurance company wouldn't be able to. Having said that, I believe the Woolwich tools that they use can't put the ecu back to an original state just restore the original parameters so someone with the right experience and knowledge would be able to tell.
     
  4. Bikeboy

    Bikeboy Active Member

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    Funny I've been looking the same .my mate has a ktm 790 and I fitted a rapid evo for him as they cant map the ECU. Hes very impressed with it. But for the price of it on the blade I can get it dynod and flashed.
     
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  5. Brom66

    Brom66 Member

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    I believe the Rapid is self learning, apparently it adjusts to atmospheric pressure, so if and when I do a Alps tour, the dense air at higher altitude it can adapt to fairly quickly.. So I've been told whether that is true I personally don't know

    Where as a Woolich is a flashed map and tweaked if needed, but it stays the same for the environment it was mapped in i.e a Rolling Road Cell, which is a warm environment with a couple of fairly large fans to try and replicate real world terms, but I don't think the ecu can adjust to road conditions, again on what I been told. which was by the Honda sales at Vertu

    I do know from years ago when I had my Subaru Mapped which was done on a rolling road, it was then taken on the road to be adjusted for real world terms, no matter how good rolling roads are they are real world. as quoted by Mark Reynolds Triumph R&D whom I used to know RIP
     
  6. charliebrown266

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    I have had woolich done on my 2017 SP1 and what a difference! in canada these bikes are so restricted its not even funny! i picked up 27 rwhp
     
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  7. bonjo

    bonjo Active Member

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    I would think if the flashing increases power & performance then naturally the insurers want to know about it and most probably add to the premium.
    On the other hand if it is to make to engine run smoother, improve drivability and perhaps MPG, then I would classify it same as fitting better brake pads, tyres or air filter.

    what year is your bike stuart? and why do you need to change? Coz when it comes to the points I mentioned, CBR is already ace as a road sports bike. For track use, different ball game hence the insurance clash

    I personnaly don't entertain the idea of harware based tuning on a modern bike which relies a lot on closed loop sensor based electronic control systems. Having been in this field for many years I can only see problems & headaches most of the time.
    But don't shoot me:( I know there are many many happy souls who don't share this point of view:)
     
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  8. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    Agree, I had a closed loop fuelling system using a wideband sensor(PCV and autotune). It was a total nightmare to set up!. Some areas the loop went crazy allowing the values to runaway resulting in over leaning/ richening. I had to implement areas where the closed loop was tightly controlled by manual thresholds and in others completely open loop. I was capturing the telemetry in real time and analysing quite closely so damage was avoided.
    Definitely not plug and play but was very happy when it was set up.

    My current blade fuelling is standard but may remove the O2 sensor deactivate the closed loop control.
     
  9. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    FWIW I declared my PCV as a 'fuelling controller', when asked it increased the power I said very slightly <5%, insurance was happy with not increasing the premium.
    Say 'power commander' expect a rise of premium!

    With the increased popularity of ECU flashes I'd expect insurances companies to get hotter on the checks
     
  10. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    My bike is 2018 SP2. The throttle is a bit jerky as they all are at small throttle openings but does smooth out when opened up a bit more. I would like this sorted and for the mixture to be correct rather than be lean for emissions reasons, so it is running at optimum mixture all the time.

    Not sure what the best route is to achieve this?
     
  11. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    I would suggest to disable the O2 sensor, this had the function of leaning off the afr for emissions etc, this also could result in a snatchy throttle and hunting at constant throttle
     
  12. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    What effect would this have on the standard ECU as it will be expecting a reading from it. Would i have to plug in a resistor like what you do when fitting a power commander?
     
  13. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    Exactly that, it will throw a FI light. An eliminator will be required just like a PCV.

    Im not that familiar with 2016 onwards but 2008+ eliminators are about a tenner
     
  14. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    Just doing a bit of extra research suggests that the pcv can not control the closed loop fuelling of 2018 on, so my suggestion of disabling the o2 sensor may not be possible, maybe someone more knowledgeable with the newer models may chip in
     
  15. dgr

    dgr Member

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    BSD disconnected the O2 sensor when they did the remap so the engine always runs in open loop. The Woolwich tools can turn off the error light for the sensor as well as for the disconnected exhaust servo motor.
     
  16. raphael

    raphael Elite Member

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    I’m thinking of getting the ecu flashed, can anyone give me an idea of cost please?
     
  17. dgr

    dgr Member

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    Somewhere between £300 and £400 typically.
     
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  18. Boothman

    Boothman Well-Known Member

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    Is a flash considered to be that much more comprehensive than fitting a power commander?
     
  19. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    major changes from 2017, for the PVC no O2 eliminator, no closed loop control?
    Capture.JPG
     
  20. LRJimmy

    LRJimmy Active Member

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    Mine is half done with a Woolwich flash as he couldn't (wouldn't) adjust the fueling at low rpm or disable the fuel shut off because I still had the CAT in the headers. He took £300 but said that once I get the CAT out I can come back and he will finish it for £50 - his normal price being £350. Just not been able to get if finished up yet with this lockdown malarkey!
     
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