please help rough idle

Discussion in 'Maintenance' started by rosier1uk, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    ok mateys here goes apologies first if this ends up being a long post but wanted to give you the full story

    So last year my 09 blade developed a rough idle running sometimes fine other times anywhere from 1.5k to 2k
    anyway unfortunately I blew a crank in the engine so replaced the engine with one I got from wedgiewolves from this forum, managed to get one last ride on the bike about 100 miles before season finished and bike seemed fine
    So roll on this year bike serviced first run out and problem returns so removed pc5 and put clean standard air filter back in checked for kinked hoses and air box for air leaks all seemed fine so took her out and problem still there. had a good read through workshop manual and hayes and read causes could be icav sensor on throttle bodies and/or spark plugs so I bought a set of throttle boddies (well 2 actually) and a wiring loom just in case (not fitted) as this would fix the icav sensor and also the tps as well while I was on with this I lubed throttle cables eliminating possible problem cause, put 4 new spark plugs in the ones I removed were perfect colour. did an ecu reset as well
    And guess what problem still there I am at my wits end with the little shit. the bike once your past 2k revs pulls like it always has with no loss of power but if for example your hitting a small roundabout and tipping in on closed throttle the bike is pulling you round at 2 k revs instead the usual 1.3k


    I have read a similar post on here with similar problems but throttle bodies seemed to cure his idle speed

    Really need some expert help to get this problem solved as really dulling my enthusiasm with bike scene
    I am very mechanicaly minded and am determined to fix this problem myself with your support

    Many thanks peeps

    Brian
     
  2. dave d

    dave d Elite Member

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    Can you get access to a heat gun see if the header pipes are warming up evenly?
     
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  3. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    Yea should be able to Dave but thought with the problem being there with old engine the only thing I didn't change when swapped the engine was the throttle bodies air box and electrics so thought this must have been were the problem was
     
  4. arthurbikemad

    arthurbikemad A very helpful Gent

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    Set plenty of slack on cables, I'd balance the throttle bodies before anything tbh, you can check the ICAV operation, check service manual for procedure, sounds like an air leak tbh (Inlet) so be sure the throttle bodies are sealed inlet side.
     
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  5. Geoff Paxton

    Geoff Paxton Member

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    Agree with the above and make sure the idle is set correctly once balanced, sounds more of a set up issue other than throwing parts at it.
     
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  6. Geoff Paxton

    Geoff Paxton Member

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    Just had a thought, is the oxygen sensor still in the exhaust ??, I have seen these getting dirty and picking up a lean mixture thus setting the demand to rich, leading to over fuelling and erratic idle, try taking out the sensor cleaning with solvent and give a gentle blow out, this can become clogged with oil deposits, fuel soot. would also give the intermittent symptoms you describe.
    May be worth doing this first as it is easy to get to.
     
  7. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    Yea it's in exhaust Geoff but had the problem when pc5 and o2 eliminator fitted will check it tho just in case
    Cheers bud
     
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  8. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    Cheers Arthur
    Never had throttle bodies balanced before is this something I can do myself ? Will recheck and refit throttle bodies just in case I've missed anything again have cables set to full slack already it's like the bloody hooky koky in out in out shake it all about lol
     
  9. arthurbikemad

    arthurbikemad A very helpful Gent

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    There are a hundred and one ways to balance, oddly bottles of fluid can never lie but are slow, I have one of these X-Sync from Germany:-



    Maybe ask a local shop etc see what they offer?
     
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  10. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    Appreciate all the advice will keep the post updated with my progress
     
  11. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    Ok so had some time on my hands so stripped the throttle bodies back out again and had a close inspection down there noticed one of the throttle bodie adapter had a tear in it not sure if you can see it in the picture but only appears to be on the inside hasn't gone straight through so will need to replace this I'll stick a post in the wanted section in case anybody has an old sc59 engine lying about with a set of adapters I could have. Only concern is that this problem was happening before this engine was fitted and didn't replace the adapters on the new engine anyway they need replacing anyway image.jpeg
     
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  12. arthurbikemad

    arthurbikemad A very helpful Gent

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    It's inlet side that's more important, any air leaks around the block and throttle bodies will cause over run, but any air leaks are never good.
     
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  13. Geoff Paxton

    Geoff Paxton Member

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    Hopefully the smoking gun bud.
     
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  14. Geoff Paxton

    Geoff Paxton Member

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    For future reference, easiest way to find an inlet air leak is to spray carb cleaner onto the area, if the revs rise then the carb cleaner is being ingested and burned hence the rpm rise.
     
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  15. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    Cheers Geoff and Arthur ok after a bit of advise on detecting an inlet air leak so we're do is start I've checked all hoses going to air box seem fine changed hose from throttle bodies to 1 way valve under nose cone was going to tape air box up around joins. Open to other suggestion
     
  16. arthurbikemad

    arthurbikemad A very helpful Gent

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    The 600RR has a fast idle that ups the RPM when in gear and the clutch is pulled, it's to help from stalling when rider pulls away, can't recall if this is a feature of the 1000RR... been a while since I had a problem like this...lol. You may also want to check your clutch switch.
     
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  17. dave d

    dave d Elite Member

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  18. ShinySideUp

    ShinySideUp Elite Member

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    I thought the blade's idle was fully ecu controlled?
    The woolich flash kit we used recently on @ColinBR blades has option to adjust idle speed in there and no mention of old screw type idle adjustment, even Suzuki jumped to full ecu idle speed around their 2008 models.

    I didn't think the blades throttle bodies has four air vacuum connection points on them to balance them up either?
    No mention of balancing the throttle bodies in Honda's service manual.
    Suzuki's throttle bodies can still be balanced but requires computer to turn off auto idle adjustment while balancing is carried out.

    As far as the cracks in the throttle body adaptors could you not utilise a smear of rtv silicone to fill the crack and leave to dry, I'm assuming the adaptor still has rigidity here and not cracking in more areas when squeezing it slightly due to degradation.
    It may allow you to test if it is the cause of your fast idle problem without spending money on new adaptors and then finding out your still in the dark!
     
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  19. rosier1uk

    rosier1uk Active Member

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    Cheers shiny yea might give that a go if I can't find a decent second hand set just trying eliminate any air leaks first just one of them annoying issues you get now and again but starting to chew me off
     
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  20. arthurbikemad

    arthurbikemad A very helpful Gent

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    Its a good point Shiney makes re the service manual, having never had a problem with the 1000RR (I have had issues with the IACV and the 600RR idle, clutch switch, IACV and TPS issues all combined) now thinking back I don't ever recall balancing a 1000RR, I jumped to the conclusion, however I did notice a spring and adjuster on one of the images, without looking at them closely it is possible manual adjustments can me made, no matter what they have butterflies and any errors would need balancing, sadly Mr Honda does a lot of factory calibration and then locks it so further adjustments are not possible on many models, other data collected by the ECU would have an effect on idle, corrupt data through faulty or intermittent sensors elsewhere could cause an issue.
     
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