2017 RA-H Latest woes

Discussion in 'General 1000RR Discussion' started by Ice Doc, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. Kentblade

    Kentblade God Like

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    It does not matter if HFE is a subsidiary of Honda Europe, it’s bound by the same rules as any finance company, and the fact they own a item that is faulty is their issue, and you cannot be expected to keep paying them for a item that is faulty, but first of all they need to know their item is faulty, which unless you have told them, then Honda customer service won’t have, your contract is with them, not Honda UK/Europe. Seriously, I have been there with this company before, and you should be taking legal advice at this point.
     
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  2. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    Thanks, this is very useful info and hopefully good leverage - I really want to see what Honda Customer Care come back with first. If I'm not happy with their response then I can at least demonstrate to the Finance company that I have tried to get the issue rectified. I appreciate your concern and advice. I'll keep the post updated.
     
  3. RC45

    RC45 Active Member

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    Oh I didn't mean post to me int he US, but rather to my UK location :)

    Clearing historic codes doesn't require an ODB2 reader either.

    All you need is the instructions on page 4-7 of the Service Manual and a paperclip. :D

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    I can do the paper clip bit, but I don't have access to the Service Manual. Are these available to purchase? I've seen a few people post (very helpfully) images from certain pages, but I'm starting to think I should invest in one (either a PDF or the printed version).. I'm guessing Honda wouldn't want to sell me one, or if they did it would be silly money. (I think @NS400R might have already posted the pages I need, but I'm worried I'll destroy something if I get it wrong).

    Just picked my bike up from - no errors have appeared yet, but I along with the dealer is pretty certain it's only a matter of time before they reappear. Obviously it was chucking it down with rain when I picked the bike up (rain cloud seems to follow my blade around like that one in the Pink Panther cartoon), so I haven't done more than 5 miles on it - perhaps tomorrow though..

    Honda Finance are going to call me next week with their thoughts on my complaint about how long it's taking to fix my bike. I'm hoping they will put some pressure on the tech side of Honda to send all the parts rather than the piecemeal diagnostic approach. Despite it not being fixed, it's great to have my blade back in the garage!
     
    #84 Ice Doc, Dec 19, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
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  5. RC45

    RC45 Active Member

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    You will simply be putting the bike into "read and clear code mode".

    You plug in the paperclip orientated in the DLC plug as shown - then turn the bike on a read the blinking check engine light,
    Count the blinks and that the codes - for academic purposes.

    See reading and clearing instructions.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #85 RC45, Dec 20, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
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  6. NS400R

    NS400R Active Member

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    Sadly manual is NLA from Honda. But what ever you need one of will post up. They were only £50.
     
  7. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    Thanks very much for this. I picked the bike up from my dealer on Saturday (before it closed due to Tier 4 Covid restrictions) and took it out for a little while on Sunday to see how I got on. The fault has yet to reappear, which I guess is part of the reason why the dealer is having issues resolving it. I have previously ridden for over an hour without the fault appearing, so I guess I might have to take it out again before it reappears given the dealership hasn't changed anything since the IMU (which didn't fix the problem).

    I've spoken to Honda Finance - they said because the bike was new in March 2018 I need to provide evidence to them that the bike was faulty at the point of sale, or within the first 6 months. Clearly it's outside of this timeframe so other than getting an expert to attest to the fact that this shouldn't happen after 2 years and 6 months (and 15k miles) then there's little they can do. They have offered to defer my repayment for a month, but I don't see that as helpful.

    So it's back to Honda Customer Care and reading the terms and conditions of my extended warranty, they are supposed to make repairs in a "reasonable" time. If I have the energy, I can go down the Citizen's Advice Bureau or National Conciliation Service route, but I'd rather Honda just got their act together and fixed the problem.

    Given the Tier 4 restrictions in Kent, I'm unlikely to take the bike out over the festive season, so I guess it won't go anywhere now until I'm back to work in the New Year.

    Just makes me think I'd rather have a bike that didn't have all of these fancy electronics. If it weren't for the disabling of the QS, I probably wouldn't care - don't use the ABS or TC on a daily basis (not sure I've ever used the ABS) but it's good to know it's there looking after me should I ever need it.

    I'll update as and when I have further news. In the meantime, happy holidays, Merry Christmas and happy new year people!

    Rich
     
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  8. NS400R

    NS400R Active Member

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    With the greatest of respect, you need independent legal advice. I know it is painful but you really do need honest independent help. The position you are in in is unacceptable in my opinion. But I'm not a lawyer....
     
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  9. hitch

    hitch Elite Member

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    Agree completely and sadly, it’s not the first shower of shit story I’ve heard about 21st Moto
     
  10. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    I've been fairly happy with 21st Moto up until now, but I am frustrated by Honda Customer Care. My extended warranty is with Honda and not a specific franchised dealer, and the T&C's clearly state that their obligation to me is to effect repairs in a reasonable timeframe. I've been arguing with them that the time a dealer takes to do the repair is their problem and not for me to be chasing up. I find the whole saga stressful and would like to avoid going down the litigation path, but I think some of my Christmas spirit and good will to all is starting to run out. I have some sympathy with those trying to diagnose the fault as it's not currently showing after the last ECU reset and I've now ridden the bike for about two hours. It will come back, it's just a matter of when as 21st Moto and I both know that it's not been resolved. Only owing around £4k on the bike now, the options of handing it back to the finance company simply isn't worth it as the excess mileage (around 2500 so far) would leave me very little to bargain with. I'm hopeful (maybe naively so) that the new year will bring a swift resolution - whether that be from 21st Moto, Dobles or Maidstone Honda... Happy 2021!
     
  11. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    :mad: So, legal action looks like the only path. Apparently I have to pay for diagnostics to be run by Doble Honda if they are to take my bike as these apparently are not covered by my Extended Guarantee - despite this not being listed in the "Main Exclusions" of my summary document. In fact, the full terms and conditions are only available from the Dealer. This absolutely stinks to me. Seems like a PPI scandal waiting to happen. Definitely time to talk to Citizen's Advice and the National Conciliation Service! Argh! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    If anyone has any advice how best to go about making this complaint, then please do let me know. I think I've just been convinced to avoid all Honda products in future (including my lawnmower!).
     
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  12. CharlieR85

    CharlieR85 Elite Member

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    Has the bike faulted again?
     
  13. NS400R

    NS400R Active Member

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    Sorry to hear this but I think it the correct course of action.

    Check with your household insurer. You often have legal cover.
     
  14. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    Yes, same fault appears to have come back (DTC 103 error). Absolutely shocked by the way Honda UK are treating me.
     
  15. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    Yes, I do have legal cover - will try the National Conciliation Service and Citizen's Advice first I guess, but I'd rather Honda just fixed the bike. They are going to send me the full terms and conditions for my Extended Guarantee that are NOT provided at the point of sale unless specifically requested. How can the cost of diagnosing a fault not be listed in the "Main Exclusions" since so far, my local Honda dealer has spent days trying to diagnose the fault. Totally disgusted by Honda Customer Care. Totally disillusioned by the whole process and added stress that I could well do without!
     
  16. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    I think you mentioned that the bike was on a PCP? If so i would take it beck to where you got it from, stopped paying the monthly payment and tell them you’ll pay again when it’s fixed and in a usable condition.
    If they don’t like it, let them take you to court and see what a judge says about it all..
     
    #96 stuart_g, Jan 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  17. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    I've spoken with Honda Finance (totally different to Honda UK "apparently" hmm), and they've offered me a payment holiday, so they're actually being reasonable. I only owe £4.5K and the bike must be worth £7-8K with its Extended Guarantee valid for another 14 months LOL, for a bike in good condition with just under 15k miles on it (with QS)..
    Need to calm down and look at options over the weekend I guess.
     
  18. RC45

    RC45 Active Member

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    I am still not sure what Honda UK is hoping to achieve here other than simply not do the repair.

    If a new battery or ground check didn't solve the issue, then per their own book using their own diagnostic steps they should have replaced the following in the following order as part of the BASIC diagnostic.:

    IMU
    Dash Cluster
    ECU
    ABS module

    Have they swapped or replaced any of these components yet?

    If not then they have not attempted to diagnose the problem yet and are simply stalling - you very much need to goo to court over this mate.
     
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  19. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    Thanks @RC45 - they have so far replaced the IMU. Honda Tech are now asking for the wiring loom to be tested as they have an idea the wires underneath the fuel tank can be an issue (hmm). The decent chaps at 21st Moto seem to be convinced its the ECU, but it's getting Honda to agree to send a replacement is the tricky part. Honda have asked 21st Moto to try swapping the ECM (ECU) for a known good one (LOL!!!!!) it seems not even a larger dealership like Doble Honda have a "spare" ECM they can use to test it with, so this is just ridiculous if you ask me.
     
  20. RC45

    RC45 Active Member

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    They can't use a known good one off another bike they have for testing?

    Tell them Ill rent them my UK D72 or D43 for $1000 a day LOL :D

    [​IMG]
     

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