2017 RA-H Latest woes

Discussion in 'General 1000RR Discussion' started by Ice Doc, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    So is that £30K's worth ($40K) of ECU's in that box? Have you got lock sets to go with each of those? I think you're just showing off :eek:
     
  2. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    I don’t get how Dobles say you have to pay for the diagnosis. I have checked the plan document i got with my warranty and it doesn’t say that. See section 5 part F. Also checked Section 13 Exclusions and doesn’t mention anything about this either.
    Get your paperwork out and check it.
     
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  3. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    I know!! I've read the same - nowhere does it stipulate that I need to cover the cost of diagnosing the fault. I've written and explained this to Honda Customer Care, but their position is that they will NOT cover the cost of diagnosing the fault. In my mind, I have already diagnosed the fault so it's irrelevant - it's Error Code 103. So in my mind they should arrange with a dealer to fix it. It's a total sh*t show if you ask me. I need to calm down, but I'm so frustrated right now! My contract is between myself and Honda Uk, not a specific dealer. I think it's a total joke!!
     
  4. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    That is shit!! If i ever have to claim i will not be paying a penny to have it diagnosed or fixed unless proven to be something i have done or a part not covered by the warranty.
    Never heard of a warranty where you have to pay for the diagnosis.
    Did 21st Moto charge you for the diagnosis/work they did?
     
  5. RC45

    RC45 Active Member

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    Nah mate, most bought used and during 2018/19 the new price for an ECU int he US was only $900. Honda raised this to $1700 in January 2020, but they are available for about $1600 including discount.

    At any point in time there are probably 5 or 6 used ECUs on eBay listed for between $500 and $700. Sometimes you can luck out and get a deal on one.

    In fact the UK D72 and D43 ECUs I bought off eBay UK for about $500 each last year.

    But still, I don't understand why they are being so stubborn as to not pull an ECU from a good bike to test?

    *edit* @Ice Doc I only just cottoned onto what you meant by lockset.

    Not a lock for the pelican case, but ignition lock for each ECU? Not needed for US ECUs or for testing purposes of EU/UK ECUs, and if need be, the immobilizer feature can be removed from the ECU for installation with a non-EU harness.
     
    #105 RC45, Jan 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  6. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    21st Moto haven't charged me at all. They are equally frustrated because Honda won't send them a replacement ECM (ECU) to install. 21st Moto have skeleton staff at the moment owing to Covid, so cannot perform the ridiculous tests that Honda Tech are asking them to do. So it was suggested that I transfer the bike to Dobles, but I've been told that Dobles will need me to cover 3 hours of diagnostics costs. This is outrageous and not mentioned anywhere in my contract - which I consider (and appears to be) between myself and Honda UK, not a specific Honda Dealership. So it seems to me that Honda UK are being deliberately awkward. My Extended Guarantee states that Honda UK will ensure that the repairs are carried out in a reasonable time frame. Clearly, not been reasonable, clearly not resolved and I'm stuck in the middle. If I have to start involving solicitors, then I have to spend more time explaining the situation and providing all the evidence and details. It seems this effort and time is never recovered.

    I think Honda UK are acting disgracefully and I simply cannot believe the way I am being treated. It's a total joke.
     
  7. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    I bought my bike from Dobles and they mentioned about the extended warranty but nothing about having to pay for diagnostic work up front.
    I would call Honda and ask what paragraph we are both missing that states this charge. Section 5 paragraph F is only part that says about diagnosis but nothing about the customer having to pat for it. In my opinion if it isn’t in there in black and white it doesn’t exist.
     
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  8. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    So here's part of the text I've received from Honda UK via email:

    "After consulting with the dealerships and Customer Relation manager, I have been advised as the vehicle is out of the manufacturer warranty the cost of the diagnostics will be completely down to the customer. I understand you have an extend guarantee with Honda (UK) and feel any cost regarding the fault should be covered under the guarantee. I have arranged for the T&C of your extended guarantee to be sent to your ASAP.

    Furthermore, I was really sorry about the experience you have had at the dealership and the time this has taken for the bike to be diagnosed, the lack of staff and the dealership closure has caused the delay in getting the repairs carried out. All Honda dealerships are separately owned franchises therefore Honda (UK) will not be able to intervene in how they run their business so any complaints regarding the dealership will need to be directly addressed to them.

    Honda (UK) always try to help our customers and provide a positive outcome but unfortunately, we cannot meet your customer expectations on this occasion.

    Our position on this is final but we do understand this is not the outcome you were hoping for, should you wish to take this further you can contact the NCS (National Conciliation Service).

    The NCS is the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme for the retail motor industry. The NCS deals with disputes between a consumer and a trader where the dispute has not been resolved to the consumers satisfaction or has reached an impasse.
    "

    I have emailed Mike Doble to ask for clarification and for an explanation as to why Doble Honda will not look at my bike unless I agree to pay 3 hours of workshop time to cover the cost of diagnosing the fault. As far as I'm concerned, the fault has been diagnosed - it's DTC Error Code 103, and they should have a procedure to fix it.

    I will keep this thread updated, and try to keep my frustration and blood pressure in check whilst doing so!
     
  9. RC45

    RC45 Active Member

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    It seems as if the bottom line is that an Extended Service Contract is not worth the paper its written on when it comes down to actually utilizing it.
     
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  10. CharlieR85

    CharlieR85 Elite Member

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    As a group of UK Honda Fireblade owners it's a shame we can't help you put pressure on them. On your own you are one disgruntled customer to them, as a collective they are displaying very poor customer service to many current and potentially future Honda motorcycle owners. This story on it's own is going to make many people think twice before dealing with all parties mentioned in this thread.

    If there's anything we can do as a group that you think would help then just say.
     
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  11. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    @stuart_g I've asked Mike Doble via email, to provide me with an email confirming that Doble Honda will not carry out any Extended Guarantee related work until someone agrees to cover the cost of 3 hours of their workshop time. I am waiting for a reply, and I've mentioned in my email to Mike that another person that has bought this product in good faith from Doble Honda is also interested in his reply. If there others that have bought an Extended Guarantee from any Honda UK dealership out there, it would be good to know, as @CharlieR85 says, I'm just one person, but if there are many more of us, maybe Honda will start to think a little more seriously about this.

    I am going to wait until Tuesday, when 21st Moto are going to call me back. They are trying to get Honda to send them a replacement ECM (ECU) to install in the bike, but if Honda refuse and insist on more tests, then I think I'll be looking at several more weeks before 21st Moto will look at the bike again. They've almost said, although not in so many words, "we've spent a long time running tests, we think the ECM is at fault, but Honda won't authorise its replacement".
     
  12. stelwalker

    stelwalker Member

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    What sh!t pie. Give the bike back and cancel the credit agreement? Can usually walk away I think if you've paid over 50%.
     
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  13. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    Good news at last, well relatively (obviously best news will be that the bike is fixed). I've had an email from Mike Doble and also spoken with their workshop expert Martin, and I'm pleased to say that they have reassured me that the information provided by Honda Customer (don't) Care was not accurate. Doble Honda are going to take a look at my bike and try and resolve the problem as soon as possible. Honda Customer Care are going to recover my bike from me to Doble Honda and then we'll take it from there. Ok, I'll be without a bike for a couple of weeks, but hopefully at the end of that I'll be sorted.

    So, the reason Doble Honda originally talked about 3 hours of workshop time was down to Honda Customer (don't) Care suggesting that my bike was in bits and not in a state that could be easily picked up. Thankfully this is not the case. Martin has also confirmed that they usually ask for a deposit when it comes to doing work, just in case the issue turns out not to be covered by the warranty or in my case the Extended Guarantee. However, they are confident given the history and the diagnostics carried out and the involvement with Honda Tech that the fault is highly likely to be covered.

    So @stuart_g I think you have the plan you purchased, and so do I, it seems that Honda Customer (don't) Care do not know what they are talking about. This is very odd given the Extended Guarantee is a contract between the customer and Honda UK, not a specific dealership who are the ones that pick up the dirty work.

    So, I'm pleased to say that I'm feeling a little more positive, but will only be happy once the issue is resolved. I think, Honda Customer (don't) Care really have acted appallingly and are a disgrace, causing unnecessary stress to me and damage to the Honda brand.
     
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  14. CharlieR85

    CharlieR85 Elite Member

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    At last! Hooray for Doble!
     
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  15. Barstewardsquad

    Barstewardsquad God Like

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    Hopefully it will now get sorted. Once done I would write a letter of complaint to the UK Head of Honda Customer Services, maybe it would trigger some remedial action to prevent this happening to someone else.
     
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  16. stuart_g

    stuart_g Active Member

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    This is good news. Really do hope that Doble find and fix the issue and everything is covered by the warranty. Keep us updated with progress.
     
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  17. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    So, quick update - bike was picked up yesterday and has been transported to Doble Honda, where Martin, Robin and the team are going to hopefully get it sorted. In the meantime Honda Customer (don't) Care are repeatedly telling me I'll be liable for diagnostic costs, but thankfully the team at Doble Honda have assured me this won't be the case unless the fault is found to be something that is not covered under the Extended Guarantee.

    upload_2021-1-12_17-6-48.png
    Tried to think of a pun about strapping but failed - I'm sure others will be more imaginative than I. I think I'm just exhausted by the stress of the entire "will they, won't they, WTF" situation.
     
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  18. Ice Doc

    Ice Doc Active Member

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    So, the latest news is that Honda UK will not reimburse my local Honda dealer for their workshop time spent diagnosing the fault to date. In fact, Honda Customer (don't) Care are insisting that I, as the customer, am liable for the cost of the diagnosis. Here is Honda Customer (don't) Care's latest reply to my query asking for where in the contract it states that I, as the Customer, will be liable for the cost of diagnosing the fault.
    upload_2021-1-13_16-41-57.png

    @stuart_g this means your Extended Guarantee is also hiding huge potential costs if Honda UK insist on their position. I've asked for clarity from Honda UK but they are insistent that this is their position. I think I'm going to start a new thread to advertise this huge contentious area with these Extended Guarantee products being mis-sold - I think it smells of a PPI scandal!
    So far, 21st Moto have said they will not be charging me for their time, and Doble Honda have confirmed that they will not be charging me for their time unless the fault is found to be caused by a part that is not covered by the Extended Guarantee. This seems reasonable to me - if something isn't working because it's something that I've done or changed that would cause damage to the bike's systems, then fair enough. The fact is, I have not - and Doble Honda have been very good at reassuring me of this.
    Argh!!
     
  19. Kentblade

    Kentblade God Like

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    Sad old situation your in mate, sorry to hear, it’s exactly the reason after buying a new 2014 to get out of the ABS disaster, as I really wanted a Blade, I vowed never, ever to buy another new Honda, sadly to say I failed, I bought a new HRG416C1 last autumn, or to the innocents, a lawnmower, but as the previous one lasted 21 years, I calculated I’ll never buy another one in my lifetime, so I can live with my weakness.

    But to be honest, most vehicle manufacturers charge for diagnostic time, but the refund it, if the fault is found to be a warranty item. Absolutely shite service if they refuse that.
     
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  20. Barstewardsquad

    Barstewardsquad God Like

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    A lesson for all to be aware of.

    I can’t see any reason to go back to a Honda for my next bike.
     
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