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Discussion in 'Lounge' started by exuptoy, Dec 4, 2018.
Don't panic....looks like Drunckers got it in hand
Just to go off track, I'm wondering if the originator of that photo was ever prosecuted for 'upskirting'?
No I think @exuptoy took it before it became law.....and besides...he's a midget, so can't really help it
Although Aussie PMs come and go faster than Man Utd fans at a match, he makes some very valid points, the main issue that has been lost, is what got us to a in/out vote anyway.
IMO, 2 core issues, the never ending civil war in the Tory party between leavers and remainers and Cameron had the complete arrogance to think it would be a walk over for remain, and dump down the Eurosceptics once and for all, and the compete failure by a Labour administration that allowed uncontrolled immigration that has seen many towns and cities turned into ethnic partitions. Uncomfortable fact but that’s the reality and has allowed the immigration issue to bubble over.
The question should have been do you want to remain a sovereign state or continue onwards to a single state federal Europe, because that is what the ‘European Project’ is, no more no less. The reality of that is major decisions such as annual budgets/taxation/laws/security etc is/will be taken by unelected burocrats in Brussels and driven by a Franco-German axis with their interests as the primary importance. If you don’t believe, reference the latest Italian budget woes.
What we are left with is an abject surrender agreement, 2 European wars in the 20th century never weakened us as much as this toothless , spineless government we have today.
Whether you voted to leave or stay you have been f**ked over by the representatives of the 27 and friendly fire by our own side. If we ever vote again and change our minds, They are going to take us to the cleaners, as they hate our guts anyway for being different but love our money as we play by the rules. No amount of KY will ease the pain of the butt f*cking they will give us for generations to come.
What an utter sh*t shower we are in now.
My own observations naturally and you are free to agree or not.
I voted for Brexit; I suspect for different reasons to a lot of others.
I can't be bothered to list everything here because, let's face it, who reads any post over 100 words long on here
So I'll just let Tony Benn do the talking.
That having been said. If it were to go to a 2nd referendum I wouldn't vote the same way. It seems clear that all we're going to get is a deal that doesn't suit the Brexiteers, doesn't suit the EU, doesn't suit the remainers. If that's the case, what's the point. I've had my mind changed. There's just too much entanglement.
The most sense I've heard spoken about it is actually by a German MEP called Hans Olaf Henkels.
I only really disagree on this bit. I think the EU would be so relieved that they'd welcome us back with open arms.
Britain leaving isn't one little country departing. Economically-speaking it's like the 19 next largest countries all leaving at once. Britain has a huge amount of political and financial clout within the EU. Far from punishing, I think the EU would celebrate.
I think a simple point that's interesting, is how on earth has it been allowed to become so complicated as to be nearly impossible to leave what is essentially a big club!
Welcome to the Hotel California....
You can check out anytime you like...
But you can never leave....
If they DO put it to another vote then that will be a bad day for democracy and that’s not sour grapes, that’s fact.
We might have had a seat at the table but we had no voice! They have no interest in our little isle, they just want our money and the ability to try and dictate to us. The number of scare stories and tactics we’re being subjected to just now should be enough for any sane person to realise they’re shitting it at the thought of the trough running dry. They’re just a load of self serving manipulating tossers who are scared of losing their meal ticket and my vote would not change. I didn’t vote because some spin doctor put a big number on the side of a bus, I voted following doing a lot of reading and my reasons haven’t changed. The EU superstate will be a bad place for all not some dystopia where they have our interests at heart. We’ll be shackled for ever.
For The Freedom and Independence of the United Kingdom
For the eternal fight against tyranny and enslavement
And for courage against cowardice
A politician caught lying... what else is new?
It's really easy to leave the EU. What's hard is to compromise in what both sides want out of "the deal".
IMO we shouldn't even have to deal. Should have just pulled the plug and left!
"Someone on another forum had caught a frank interview with a european politician who admitted the EU would be the net loser from Brexit. I don't know how the figures were collated but one stood out as very memorable. The UKs financial input is supposedly worth the whole of 19 of the poorest EU countries of the 28. Without us there will be 27 bottles remaining on the wall. The point the chap made (I believe he might have been Dutch) was that the 8 remaining financially stronger countries would have to pick up the extra shortfall of the UK leaving. The politician was deeply concerned that European people would not accept an increase in taxation to balance the shortfall of us leaving.
Depending on how we leave, the Federal Europeans aspirations are going to be largely set back as the UK is a net contributor.
They may not be admitting it but the repercussions on how we leave, ie no deal, a managed deal, or TMs soft deal, is as crucial to the EU as it is to us.
Interesting piece on the wireless this morning (Matt Frie- LBC). Interview with some German MEP type. Quite balanced and sensible. He was explaining how much he thought the EU could do (have done) to avert Brexit - but didn’t.
It was his view, as I understood it, that the UK leaving the EU would have the effect (upon the EU) similar to 19 other nations leaving. No wonder they are filling their pants - who’s gonna pay for all the basket cases if 1 of the few net contributors is allowed to escape."
'scuse the facebook link but this lady speaks sense!
And close by is a group of well trained operators that are ready to shut everyone down. 1,4,5 or 90. It doesn't matter.
The reckoning day is close, and lets be honest anyone of thought this would be any different was kidding themselves.
We are in an exclusive self interest club run by a Franco-German alliance and their on side un-elected bureaucrats, yes the very same ar**holes this country have been negotiating with, with a large majority of puppy countries dependent upon their masters for a meal ticket. They were never, ever going to negotiate a deal other than one in their favour, and we have just wasted 2 years for our political puppets to get to that end point.
The gradual expansion east by the EU has been a spectacular failure, the EU ruling classes believed it would weaken Russia and isolate them to the point they would want to come in from the cold..............just one fly in that soup....a guy called Putin, who has out manoeuvred them spectacularly and at the same time stoked up a massive Russian nationalism project and the EU being what it really is, that's 28 fragmented countries, cannot agree even on the basics of how to deal with him, and the 2 main protagonists ie France and Germany have massive financial investments in Russia they are desperate to protect, hence why they have never had the stomach to tackle Putin head on, he knows it and is running all over the EU and to boot a few neighbouring countries as well. Putin 1 EU 0 and no sign of penalties anywhere.
The sum result of this is massive subsides required to bail out these basket case countries and a massive shift west of their populations, bringing cheap unskilled labour to Western Europe but creating large tensions in many countries over immigration.
Forget all the doom stories about farmers here having to let food rot in the fields, as they cannot get enough eastern labourers, all they are concerned about is the massive investment they have made in this cheap, compliant workforce and the reality they might have to start employing people on higher salaries to do the same job and the dent in their profits.
We have seen Guy Verhofstadt start to show his true colours yesterday, they realise the chances of a no deal and us just walking way are looming larger by the day, mainly due to the shambolic UK government and opposition parties who all have their own agendas to fight, the voting public leave & remain have been forgotten. So he has decided to start slagging off UK MPs he does not like....its only going to get worse.
The EU is now sh**ing itself as reality kicks in, not only are they losing our milk money that props up a lot of the crap they want to implement, but we might just bugger off and take our 40 billion piggy bank with us. That's a real problem for countries that are bankrupt already and those that aren't have populations more and more restive and anti government by the day, and do not want or have the resources to pay our share or the political will to raise taxes to do the same.
Anyone who thinks a second vote will be a remain vote and resolve everything is living in cloud cuckoo land, just think of the issues remaining now would stoke up, a complete loss of democracy in this country, and the spectre of a country that is totally fragmented at both the general public and political levels, but still having a say in EU issues/policies, the atmosphere will be toxic to say the least and potentially will cause massive unrest in the EU, and even bring it all down totally.
There is only one option on the table, and that's to leave now, either with a bad deal or no deal, simple as that and the only game in town is to now walk away with no deal, as the bad deal really is a bad deal for UK PLC
At that point we have a bargaining chip, to have sensible trade deals and take back some control currently lost to the EU, anything less now and we get rolled over big time by the EU, will we have the same access and tariffs as now?, totally doubt it but its a 2 way street with trading partners, and if the EU don't play ball, then plenty of countries will and then the beleaguered PMs in the EU can explain to their subjects why Spanish farmers are going bankrupt, Dutch soft veg and fruit farmers are struggling to replace one of their biggest markets, Greek and Portuguese farmers in the same boat as the Dutch........and our friends across the Irish Sea totally goosed, Veradkar knows the threats he has been pumping out has not had any impact, even the fear project of terrorism returning to the Emerald Isle and that's why his head is so far up the EU elites asses he cant been seen anymore. This could bankrupt them.
Weak, fragmented political groups have got us here, and us the general public are currently riders on a runaway train, hold on tight the next few months, will have even less control over your destiny then an 08-16 ABS Blade.
2019 some year this will be.
PS. 100s millions a week for the NHS, etc etc , anyone who believed that bulls*it and voted on that, you'll be looking forward to hearing the fat guy in the red suit and his reindeer team in a few nights time
I sincerely hope it all does end up in a clean break, to have another referendum vote would be a total fuck up the arse for democracy and I don't think even May wants to go there.........that fucking idiot Corbyn on the other hand..........
I voted to leave in the first referendum but I don't think that a second vote would be anti-democratic.
That vote was 2 years ago. A lot has happened since then. Lots of new information. Lots of people are much more informed than they were. To my mind it would be undemocratic to blindly continue without checking with the people that they really want to go through with it. After all, isn't that the essence of democracy? Giving people a choice?
If a company or any other organisation were to make a decision, there's no way they'd go ahead with it without having a meeting before implementation. A final, "right, are we definitely wanting to go ahead with this?", before the trigger is pulled.
I can understand why people who still want out don’t want a second vote because they can probably sense that it wouldn’t go the same way this time round.