Engine bolts, and Brakes.

Discussion in 'Maintenance' started by KevM, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Hello all,
    Fairly new on here, recently bought a 2016 Black edition - good info on here for someone new to the bike, thanks!

    Couple of questions, having just had a first run out this afternoon, which was nice A fine choice I think!

    I fitted some non-drill R&G crash bungs and as per the R&G instructions tightened the bolts (engine mounting bolts) up to 40 Nm although the Haynes manual says front engine bolts should be 64 Nm. If you have these fitted to your bike what have you torqued the front engine bolts to? Reason for asking is there was a bit of vibration through the frame at various revs - about 5500 in 3rd, different at different revs/gears, wondered if it was because the bolts should be tighter.

    Also, something I picked up on during the test ride which the dealer was going to look at was a slight judder during braking, when the speed drops below, say, 10 mph or less when coming to a complete stop. It’s at a speed when you’re starting to come off the brakes to smoothly stop so hard to sustain to check but seems like it’s still there. Anybody got any ideas? Sticky pad(s) on the pins or?? The braking is good apart from that., good bite, no other vibration points. It doesn’t have ABS.

    Any input appreciated!
    Cheers,
    Kev.
     
  2. Lozzy

    Lozzy God Like

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    Hi and welcome Kev...I think @LRJimmy recently fitted the non drill R&G to his similar blade...hopefully he'll be along soon to help you now I've pasted him in.
     
  3. Wes

    Wes New Member

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    Your braking description is very similar to what I found out to be warped discs on my rrs. They decreased in performance and eventually got a little snatchy coming to a stop. Some pretty wavy ones along with a thorough clean of the calipers sorted the issue.
     
  4. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Thanks!
     
  5. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Thanks Wes, perhaps back to the seller then, still under a 3 month warranty. The bike only has 1800m on it but that’s more than enough for someone to warp the discs I guess. I might start with cleaning the calipers in the meantime and a bit of grease on the sliders - worth a go in the first instance? It has wavy discs, came with them. What discs did you put on?
     
  6. Selmer50mark

    Selmer50mark Elite Member

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    I've Had that problem with brakes on my RRV , I tested the discs weren't warped and cleaned the calipers but it still had a pulsating feel at slow speed ,,,,,, anyway I got pissed off with it and gave it a hard time on the brakes o_O it was spot on after that ,,, must of cleaned up the pads ... :rolleyes: no more pulsating :)
     
  7. Blade runner 1

    Blade runner 1 Well-Known Member

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    Hello and welcome.
    Wouldn't have thought the discs would be warped at that mileage, not impossible though. Could be something that sorts itself out over use if the bike has been unused for a long period. Personally I would get the dealer to fix it, especially as you brought it up with them before you bought it. They shouldn’t be selling a motorcycle with defective brakes.
    Also check the rotors are free on the buttons, there should be a slight lateral movement.
     
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  8. Wes

    Wes New Member

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    Your mileage seems very low to have an issue but it is what it is.
    I’d do exactly as your suggestion. Give the calipers a freshen up and why not ? No harm done. I would pay attention to the sliders looking for any binding points. I’ve had this issue before with the pad back plate almost seeming like it had welded itself to the pin. Prove the pistons are all sweet and your all good to go.
    If you were to go down the road of having to change those discs then you don’t want to introduce under performing calipers to them.
    If those wavies we’re installed because of an issue then i believe it would initially mask the problem a little but getting them sorted is what it’s all about and well done for not ignoring something as important as your brakes.
    As we all know they’re kind of crucial.
    Best of luck mate.
     
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  9. Wes

    Wes New Member

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    As Blade Runner 1 suggested. Buttons buttons buttons......quite right. Some loose and will almost rattle and others tiiiiiight. Been there !
     
  10. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Thanks all, that gives me something to go on. It’s an hour and a half or so of motorway to the dealer so I’ll try to sort it in the meantime but call them tomorrow / Monday to report the problem with them. So we have - try a caliper clean first, check the disc buttons, then work up to a bit of hard braking, then see....I’ll let you know what happens. Sometime after the weather goes through mind you...
    The galfer discs were on the bike from new so they haven’t been put on in response to an issue. Here’s hoping it’s lack of use, machines of any sort don’t like sitting around do they?
     
  11. CharlieR85

    CharlieR85 Senior Member

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    The main thing is.....you haven't got ABS!!! Yay!!!! :D:D:D Welcome to the forum.
     
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  12. LRJimmy

    LRJimmy Active Member

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    Hello and welcome mate.
    I tightened mine to 50 ft-lbs which is the same as Haynes and the force to break the original engine bolts was way over 40 NM. I know its simple but do you still have the spacer between the frame and the engine block on the right side? If it were missing prior to you removing the original bolt then it could be the cause of vibration...but did you have vibration before fitting the slider brackets?

    I agree with the rest of the guys on the brakes - with only 1800 miles on it then thats not a lot of usage over 4 years so chances are a good clean and some hard use will get them working properly
     
  13. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Thanks! I was looking at one with ABS at first then found a thread on this forum about it. And then went traditional...
     
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  14. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Hi, yes, the spacer is there, thankfully the R & G instructions tell you to watch out for it falling out. With a loud clunk in my case as I’d have needed three hands to catch it. I don’t know about vibration before - the test ride was in the outskirts of London so yesterday was the first decent ride. I wanted to fit a rad guard, the bungs, and do an oil change before using it.
    I’ll get behind the fairings again (that’s not as easy as it could be, is it?!) to re-check the torque, see how it compares to your 50lb-ft...
    cheers!

    Just checked some torque settings...the 40Nm R&G recommend is only 30lbft, Haynes says 64Nm/ 47lbft, which is also what you have done, so a bit of tightening up is in order it seems.
     
    #14 KevM, Feb 8, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  15. LRJimmy

    LRJimmy Active Member

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    Agree the fairings are fiddly but after a few times off and on they are actually pretty quick to do. Its that little plastic plugs that need a gentle hand :rolleyes:
     
  16. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Progress to date....spent a bit of time on Sunday whilst avoiding the wind and rain - took out the pads, cleaned them, cleaned the calipers and pistons,( they were moving nice and smoothly), and cleaned up and regreased the pad pins and back together again.

    I got an email back from R&G, thought I’d ask them about the crash bungs as well. Chap said the 40Nm is due to the fact their bolts are designed to bend rather than snap and anything more might damage the bolt. So I went for a good old fashioned middle-of-the-road fence sitting approach and tightened it just a bit more, to 55Nm, so we’ll see what happens there. There has to be a reason Honda say much tighter I’d think? As in, security of engine in the frame?!

    Just need time and weather now to go for a ride to see if that’s worked!

    Thanks again all for your ideas and advice...
     
  17. LRJimmy

    LRJimmy Active Member

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    I think R&G may mean the bolts for the bung to bracket and not the bracket through frame on to the engine o_O
     
  18. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    More than likely! I thought I was fairly specific in the email, however? The bolt tightened up with no problems but I’ll go with the minimum needed to sort the vibration. If it still does it next time I’ll tighten it further. Those fairing’s will be a doddle before long...
     
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  19. Barstewardsquad

    Barstewardsquad God Like

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    Hey I'm just impressed you got a reply from R&G, I never have and so no longer buy anything of theirs.
     
  20. KevM

    KevM New Member

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    Just a quick update on doings...
    Finally got out for a couple of runs, albeit one was to have some heated grips fitted during the pouring rain yesterday. Hoorah.
    However....both issues seem to be solved. Touch wood. Another hoorah.
    During the first run last week, it seemed there was still a bit of vibration but briefer, and yesterday and today it wasn’t there at all. The dealer checked the brakes over and tested them on their MOT machine and all good.
    The vibration through the frame has reduced a lot too, so definitely worth tightening the frame bolts beyond R&G’s 40Nm/ 30lbft...
    Looking forward to these storms giving up and getting some miles in and getting used to the bike!
    Cheers again folks.
     
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