Important Notice - Please Read If You own an ABS 2009 Onwards Model

Discussion in 'General 1000RR Discussion' started by jimglasgow, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. jimglasgow

    jimglasgow Member

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    I know there has been a few post on this subject but after speaking to Honda Technical this morning again, after another episode at the weekend, those who are or have encountered this problem must do the following, before someone is hurt, as there appears to be some close calls.

    I had a long chat with the guys at Honda Technical UK, about the brakes going to the bar intermittently, with reduced breaking! Honda UK claim no dealers are contacting them about this issue, which sounds ridiculous, considering the amount of posts I have read. Although there may only be a few of us encountering it, I still believe there is a problem. I did explain if the forum didn't exists, we would only think it's us individually who are having the problem, and not widespread.

    Therefore I'm suggesting and Technical agreed with me, those having the problem MUST report it to Honda Technical or your dealer. Please ensure the dealer reports it to Honda this way Honda can react, other than that they are just looking at mine as an individual case.

    Here are some numbers which you can you use.

    Honda uk contact number: 0845 200 8000
     
    #1 jimglasgow, Jul 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
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  2. Kentblade

    Kentblade God Like

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    Jim, I find this quite unbelievable from Honda Tech. Earlier this year, I raised an incident with Honda customer services before it went into the dealer. I gave the incident number to the dealer in advance. The dealer dealt with Honda technical who authorised a new ABS ECU and brake bleed (twice) under goodwill as the bike is out of warranty (10 plate). As you are aware others have been in similar situations on here.

    I am amazed that this has not been raised as a vehicle defect with VOSA by somebody by now. They will determine if it is a genuine safety related issue and have the power to force the manufacturer to resolve it.

    http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservices/vehicledefects.htm
     
    #2 Kentblade, Jul 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  3. jimglasgow

    jimglasgow Member

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    Well the more who reply to this and contact the honda the better! In addition if those who have encountered the problem respond i will bloody print this thread to out and send it to them.

    No sarcastic post please..... "like shouldn't have got ABS" as that's not to helpful, as one day all Hondas will have ABS so we need it sorted now!
     
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  4. Trueblue

    Trueblue New Member

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    Hope you get things sorted soon bud, it can't be a nice position to be in.
     
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  5. jimglasgow

    jimglasgow Member

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    Cheers bud, not ideal...loosing confidence each day as it drags on.
     
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  6. kpone

    kpone Moderator
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    As this issue does seem an extremely 'Marmite', with those who have problems and those who do not, any feedback to Honda concerning it has merit. If there is some inertia in the matter with the main dealers it will be difficult for the mother company to form a true picture of what is happening at the sharp end. I think Jim's idea is sound. It's helpful and not contentious and may well be of value to both Honda and riders.

    If the membership would like us to 'stick' the thread at the top of the board for a while as a reference, could you indicate so.
     
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  7. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    Jim,

    If you want to link this thread i started too that might help, even still people are adding their names to the list.

    http://1000rr.co.uk/general-1000rr-discussion/10058.htm

    Interestingly the guy at Honda UK has already been contacted by one member on here. I quote the member below.

    They also know from myself and Kentblade as we both have reference numbers for the cases.
     
  8. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    To make it easier, here are the users recording faults to date on my thread.

    Name: Pete1987
    Model Year: 2009
    Reported to Honda: Yes (Ref 00857667)
    Taken to Dealership: Yes (1st time 30/07/2012, 2nd time 11/04/2013)
    Description of fault: When braking all of a sudden a sudden loss in brake lever and pedal modulation, lever goes straight back to the throttle and the pedal goes soft and fully to the floor. ABS light flashing and does not reset until the bike is turned on and off again. Brake lever and pedal have to be pumped to regain feel, yet very spongey feel (lever almost all the way to the bar).
    Description of work carried out: Full brake bleed on 30/07/2012 conducted by John Banks Honda, authorised by Honda UK.
    Problem Resolved: No after my first ride back on the bike since the brakes have been bled, the brakes failed again with all the sypmtoms of the above, Honda UK were called using the same reference number above and now the bike is being collected by John Banks Honda to be diagnosed.
    Video Link of ABS error whilst stationary:
    http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Pe...b37f4.mp4.html
    Video Link of Brake Collapse:
    http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Pe...24b01.mp4.html
    I've since had the modulator replaced, but the lever is gradually getting spongier again.

    Name: Swiss T
    Reported to Honda: No - Out of Warranty
    Taken to Dealership: No - Do my own spannering
    Description of fault: Same as previous post - When braking all of a sudden a sudden loss in brake lever and pedal modulation, lever goes straight back to the throttle and the pedal goes soft and fully to the floor. ABS light flashing and does not reset until the bike is turned on and off again. Brake lever and pedal have to be pumped to regain feel, yet very spongey feel (lever almost all the way to the bar).
    Description of work carried out: Initially removed the cabs fuse. Stripped & cleaned the calipers & sensors together with new fluid & bleed. Also fitted a cabs on/off switch so I can reset on the fly without turning the ignition off/on, or just turn it off all together.
    Problem Resolved: So far yes. Since the cleaning & new fluid, I have kept the system on & its been ok.

    Name: Shing90 (2010 ABS)
    Reported to Honda: Called in to chat about it (not really reported) No warranty remaining.
    Taken to Dealership: No
    Description of fault: Squeltchy brakes on one occasion, biting point of the brakes never being consistent and sponginess, momentary loss of brake when in operation.
    Description of work carried out:
    Problem Resolved: No

    Name: Slick (59 ABS)
    Reported to Honda: No
    Taken to Dealership: Yes (1st time feb 2013, 2nd time March 2013)
    Description of fault: When braking in very slow conditions, lever comes back to throttle and ABS light comes on, reset by restarting and riding over 50mph.
    Description of work carried out: First time caused by corroded callipers, fully service by honda, fault returned a few weeks later so a full ABS bleed was done under warranty.
    Problem Resolved: Yes so far!

    Name: Ritchierich
    Model Year: 2010
    Reported to Honda: No
    Taken to Dealership: Yes
    Description of fault: While wheeling bike back on steep driveway front bike lever went with no pressure felt.
    Description of work carried out: Dealership bled braking system.
    Problem Resolved: Part Xed bike for new 2013 Repsol Blade and not had the problem on this one as of yet.

    Name: Barry
    Model Year: 2009
    Reported to Honda: No
    Taken to Dealership: Yes but nothing found when tested.
    Description of fault: When moving the bike around at slow speed and the engine is running and using the front brake, the lever has come back to the handle bar a couple of times, cured by switch off and restarting. Fault appears also when using the front brake whilst filtering or in slow moving traffic, fault is the same as above and only resets when the bike is switched off. When the fault has appeared, the bitting point is in a different postion to the point it bites at when the c-abs is working.
    Description of work carried out: flushed brake fluid through, removed both front brake calipers and inspected - no issues with brakes found. Inspected and cleaned abs sensor and abs ring, again no issuesbfound.
    Problem Resolved: Only if i don't keep using the brakes at slow speed i.e on,off,on,off.

    Name: billo01
    Model Year: 2009
    Reported to Honda: Yes
    Taken to Dealership: Yes
    Description of fault: Collected brand new bike from dealers. Left the forecourt and the fault light began flashing. Got home and looked in the manual for a description of the fault. Returned the bike to dealers who performed a "reset". Left the dealers and again the fault immediately returned. Bike returned to dealers where it stayed for around six weeks. With no resolution in sight by the dealer I dealt with Honda UK Technical Services Manager Dave Rowley. Honda UK collected the bike and off it went to Slough. I never saw the bike again.
    Description of work carried out: I was led to believe that F&R sensors were replaced and ECU.
    Problem Resolved: Honda UK replaced the bike and I've now got another C-ABS. No issues to date apart from brake lever feathering results sponginess and excessive lever travel. I believe the original bike was repaired and was returned to the dealers for re-sale, Knutsford Honda who don't exist anymore.
    Rightly or wrongly here are his contact details;
    Dave Rowley
    Technical Services Manager
    Honda (UK) - Motorcycles
    Direct Dial +44(0)1753 590621
    Direct Fax +44(0)1753 286621
     
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  9. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    Forum Name: grizzle
    Hi
    I had the loss of pressure to lever last year on my 2012 ABS blade, doing about 60, I had feathered the brakes to slot into a space between cars, the cars started to slow and my lever had no pressure, I shat myself, released and grabbed the lever and nearly did a stoppie as i put so much pressure on but the lever had resistance. I reported to the dealer, it was sometime around September 2012. They had had no instances, I took the bike over to the dealer and there were no recorded faults held.
    Sunday, filtering past a long line of traffic, stopping and starting as opposing traffic allowed it did it again at about 30 mph, I was much calmer this time, released and re-applied pressure and all was well although it had added some distance onto my filtering plan, just made it look untidy.
    I rang my dealer this morning and they now have reported incidents of this happening. They rang Honda UK and range me back 40 mins saying they need the bike ASAP and not to ride it back, more because we knew a fault had occured and if I ploughed into something on the way there, hindsight is no defence if it all goes to rat.
    Initiated Honda Assistance, who were most helpful, and arranged recovery from my home address to the dealers some 50 miles away. this all happened between 11am and 2.30pm, so far so good!
    Dealer tells me they will work on in Thursday and Friday as it is a 2 day warranty job and it has been authorised by Honda. Honda want a full ECU log.
    Just to take the shine off the efficient way this has been dealt with today, the recovery who are sent by AA for Honda Assistance managed to scrape the under tray / belly pan as they unloaded it at the Dealers, they didn't have a ramp for the trailer. However, the garage reported it straight away and AA are getting it sorted as soon as dealer give then a price for repair or replacement.
    The service manager and the senior technician at the dealers are people I have known for many years, so once I can get to speak to either of them when they are not at work I will try to update as to what they have done.

    Name: Brym
    Model Year: 2010 RRA
    Reported to Honda: No
    Taken to Dealership: Yes
    Description of fault: CABS cut out while braking, lever momentarily went soft. Scary when you are not expecting it!
    Description of work carried out: Dealer checked it out nothing obvious at first. Noted it was winter and brakes needed a clean. Reset fault code. Cleaned calipers/pistons
    Problem Resolved: Yes until recently approx 1 year on the same happened again. I rode it for a few days like this. First application of the brakes the abs light would flash and brakes swap to conventional (no ABS). After a couple of days it cleared itself and has not returned.

    Name: Jimglasgow
    Model Year: 2013
    Reported to Honda: No
    Taken to Dealership:No, Mentioned it, said they weren't aware of the problem
    Description of fault:Front brake goes right back to grip, albeit never happen at speed seems to be either when going slow or stopped at lights. Started noticing it a while ago but happen loads today whilst traveling through the town. so its going in as far as im concern its not my bloody imagination.Has Honda recognised the issue?
    Description of work carried out: Nothing yet
    Problem Resolved: No

    Name: Repsol1
    Model Year: 2013
    Reported to Honda: Not yet
    Taken to dealership: Not yet
    Mileage: Under 1000
    Description of fault:
    My drive slopes slightly down hill (ride in up hill). I was letting it roll back to the road and pulled the front brake to slow down. Alarmed!! It all but came back to the bar and the braking was greatly reduced. ABS light on anyway as I had not exceeding speed to turn off, so I don't know if it indicated a fault.
    More often than not there is clicking noise (abs pump)? when turning the ignition on. Riding I have had no problems but not tried it from 120mph as another member repoted!
    From what you say it would appear that it needs to go to dealer asap.
     
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  10. jimglasgow

    jimglasgow Member

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    Cheers,

    This is really interesting read, how can Honda say they are not aware of this.
    Jim
     
    #10 jimglasgow, Jul 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
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  11. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    keep us posted Jim.
    I would definitely report it to vosa especially as its happening to 13 model blades.
     
  12. barry107

    barry107 Active Member

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    Name: Barry
    Model Year: 2009
    Reported to Honda: YES. Given unique reference number: hmeccM00956162.
    Taken to Dealership: Yes but nothing found when tested.
    Description of fault: When moving the bike around at slow speed and the engine is running and using the front brake, the lever has come back to the handle bar a couple of times, cured by switch off and restarting. Fault appears also when using the front brake whilst filtering or in slow moving traffic, fault is the same as above and only resets when the bike is switched off. When the fault has appeared, the bitting point is in a different postion to the point it bites at when the c-abs is working. Brake pressure is now lost even when not feathering the brakes, happens more often as the temp has raised. Description given to dealer whilst it has having it's 6,000m service but nothing found. Still have issue.Description of work carried out: flushed brake fluid through, removed both front brake calipers and inspected - no issues with brakes found. Inspected and cleaned abs sensor and abs ring, again no issues found.
    Problem Resolved: Only if i don't keep using the brakes at slow speed i.e on,off,on,off. Waiting to carryout full system bleed. Carried out 2 full brake bleds using 1.5L of Castrol brake fluid. Fault returned, noticed it happens when engine temp has raised up to 100c. Allow bike to cool down for 1 hour and the brakes are fine until the temp raises again.

    Updates in red and green.
     
    #12 barry107, Jul 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
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  13. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    I'll add that the modulator that i had replaced did improve things but its been in the bike for around 2 months now and the lever pressure is tailing off, new levers on the bike and it feels worse so i think i'll be changing them back to stock levers and seeing what happens.
     
  14. Kentblade

    Kentblade God Like

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    Just to add to Petes above, my brakes were very sharp after the 2 brake bleeds, just had 3 weeks off the bike on holiday, and brakes were very wooden and spongy on riding again, neraly totalled it last week trying to brake from 70 after coming around a bend and a queue of cars in front of me on a motorway, no matter how hard I squeezed the lever, no more braking force was available, pathetic for a superbike, still not a lot better.

    The new ECU has appeared to stop the flat battery issue, and ride around the feathering issue and lever back to bars, but can reproduce it at will if required.
     
    #14 Kentblade, Jul 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  15. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    I think this thread and the one i have linked need to be stickied for the moment until a point where the problems are addressed.
     
  16. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    Not again Cliff! This is getting stupid now, hopefully Jim can get somewhere with VOSA?
     
  17. Kentblade

    Kentblade God Like

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    Yes hopefully Pete.

    I just find now that riding the bike daily, you just have to put the issues out of your mind and ride as normal, then treat every issue as they occur, bit like a real life video game ;)

    If you dwell on it, then you would not get on the thing I guess.
     
  18. Pete1987

    Pete1987 Active Member

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    Agreed, i just factor in more space in front when i'm out on it, its a shame that its not a simple thing to decomission it and revert to standard brakes either by the looks of things. I'd happily pick up some stock calipers and lines and have those if it wasnt for the fact the system is so embedded into the bike.
     
  19. SIDEWAYS

    SIDEWAYS Senior Member

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    Jesus!!! You guys must be fraught with fear getting on your blades.I know I would be.This is a serious fault that could cause a serious collision.Anybody spoke to Watchdog? They have a lot more clout and could highlight this fault on their show.Good luck lads hope you get them all sorted.
     
  20. Sossige

    Sossige Active Member

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    Am sorry to read this thread and the ones like it - they were the reason why I refused to get an ABS Fireblade. I hope you all get somewhere with it, involving the media if you have to.

    I'd be bricking it every time I went for the brakes, wondering if they were going to let me down that one time....
     

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