Low Rev Judder

Discussion in 'General 1000RR Discussion' started by John Tuck, May 29, 2020.

  1. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    A couple of weeks back I got a 2013 Blade with 795 miles on the clock. I've since added another 600 miles but I'm getting nasty juddering to the power delivery between 2000 and 3000 revs. It's there in all gears, worse when the bike is hot but it runs absolutely fine beyond 3000 up to the red line. I wonder whether it's because the bike has sat with so little use that old fuel has damaged something but I don't know why that would only affect it at those revs. It hunts a bit when idling when it's hot but always starts and doesn't stall. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
    The bikes a 20th anniversary in black which looks beautiful but the paint seems to be really soft, it's already covered in micro scratches. I've applied some film to try to keep it nice.
     

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  2. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    Do you have a slip on? Perhaps a ECU reset will help?

    Agree the paint is really soft and actually quite thin too.

    I have PPF on the forward facing body work and then all covered in a ceramic coat, apart from where the tank meets my belly the paintwork is almost perfect.

    If you're into keeping the paintwork nice, check out the other tread https://www.1000rr.co.uk/threads/cleaning-regime.38931/
    It may be you need to put an extra step or two to remove grit before the contact wash.
     
  3. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    Thanks, I don’t know how to reset the ecu. The bike is completely std. I’ve searched on here and other misfires are attributed to spark plugs but it feels like whatever this is affects all cylinders and always between 2 and 3 thousand rpm, I can’t see this being plugs.
     
  4. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    judder can indicate a cylinder not firing properly.

    ECU reset only resets the idle parameters but its easy and worth a try.

    1. Disconnect battery

    2. Reconnect after at least 10min

    3. Start the bike without moving the throttle

    4. Let it run until the fans kick in.

    5. Let it continue running until the fans turn off again

    6. Flick the kill switch off then (Quickly) on again.
     
  5. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    Thanks Slick, as you say worth a try.
     
  6. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    no sure of the service history of your bike but an oil change may be worth a shout
     
  7. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    I brought it from a Honda dealer, they were selling it for a customer. They did oil, filter and brake fluid before I picked it up. To be fair to them, they will have it back to investigate, it’s just they’re a way away and it means getting a lift back and a lift back up as there’s nowhere open to kill any time. Praps I just try spark plugs, I’ve got to take air box off to fit QS anyway.
     
  8. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    BTW slick, you have ceramic coating - what’s that and how is it done?
     
  9. bonjo

    bonjo Active Member

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    I feel your pain about not wanting to hang around in a deserted neibourhood while the dealer is working on your bike.
    Slick is spot on with the ECU reset proceedure so save it for future reference.
    I have had to do it twice in the 12 years ownership of my bike the last one (recently) to try to correct a high idle speed and so far it has worked.
    You may be lucky.
    In my case, I left the battery disconnected for few hours.
    If by judder you mean engine vibes similar to labouring, you can easily get that at low rpm (~2k) in anything other that 1st. This is worse if you want to accelerate hard or are a heavy load
     
  10. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    Essentially it’s a permanent 'glass' coating on the body work.
    Unlike wax it can last a few years. Its very hydrophobic so makes cleaning a little easier.

    Also having ceramic properties it provides a degree of protection from marring and swirls but if you want a true protection layer PPF is the way to go.

    There are a few threads on here regarding application, but basically the paint work should be close to perfect ie swirl free and absolutely clean ie no wax, grease dirt.

    The level of perfectness and cleanliness depends on the amount and method of preparation you use, for the best results you need to go the full hog, multistage wash, decontamination, clay, polish, IPA wipe down etc. The better the prep the longer the coating will last.

    The application of the coat itself is similar to wax but needs a bit of attention to detail and timing. Its applied very thinly, allowed to flash, levelled off then buffed. Unlike wax you cannot remove it easily so you need to get it right first time
     
    #10 Slick, Jun 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  11. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies, that ceramic coating sounds like lots of work. I’m thinking pattern plastics and keep the std ones nice to put back on for sale.
    The judder occurs in all gears between 2000 and 3000 RPM, it’s not a mechanical labouring kind of judder. More like an oiled up two stroke, you know the burr, burr, burr before it clears and you’re away. I’ve convinced myself it’s spark plugs cos whilst it’s not credible that all 4 have failed I’ve reasoned that it only takes one and then the lambda sensor sees unburnt mixture and takes the fuel off all cylinders. I’ve just finished the job but haven’t road tested yet. It’s a bit of an arse isn’t it? The plug change I mean, I’ve fitted the QS I got last week as well so it had to come apart for that as well. Do you replace the fuel line retainers each time like the manual says?
     
  12. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    It's fixed! Took it out yesterday on a mixture of fast and town roads and it's fine, buttery smooth accelerating in sixth from 2000 RPM.
    I tried out the Translogic QS as well, what a piece of kit you can now upshift whilst cornering without upsetting the bike at all, smoother changes than I can do using the clutch - love it.
     
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  13. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    Was it duff plugs in the end?
     
  14. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    It was, I don't know how many, it felt like all four were cutting out but that may have been the lambda sensor seeing the rich mixture (when the unburnt mixture reached it) and shutting off/leaning the fuel right off.The plugs all look alright and obviously weren't failing all the time, I don't know what it was about the 2000 to 3000 rev range that was so difficult for them!
    You've taken the lambda sensor out haven't you, I read on here somewhere?
     
  15. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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    I have removed the O2 sensor on a previous 2009 blade (and also a CB1000r) that was running stock. I found the throttle way too snatchy when running through traffic. Also could feel the hunting on constant throttle on my arduous motorway commute.
    It was all good until I got a yoshi slip, this was terrible at low revs so fitted a PCV and AT , again very happy with that.

    I have another completely stock blade, considering removing the O2 as well but its actually running great or just subconsciously changed my riding habits to get round the snatchiness. Might just leave as it until things changes
     
  16. John Tuck

    John Tuck Active Member

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    I had a KTM RC 8 in 2010, it was one of those that were for sale for £8k. Staggering value for money considering the specification. Anyway, it didn't run right until he O2 sensors were disabled. That was easy though, using TuneECU (free software) just switched them off. How are Fireblades disabled?
     
  17. Slick

    Slick Elite Member

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